ARIANNA WYNDHAM: Welcome to Barnstormer Base Camp

JULIE PARKER: Hey everyone I’m Julie!

ARIANNA: And I’m Arianna.

JULIE: And on today’s episode we’re joined by our special guest Dr. Kitty Fallon for a

conversation about mental health during the pandemic, the impact on our lives and

perspectives, and actions we can take to unify and impact change. Thanks for spending some

time with us!

ARIANNA: We’re so honored to have on our podcast today Dr. Kitty Fallon who is a life coach

and co-founder of The Gloaming at Santa Fe, a counseling and life coach practice. Thanks for

joining us, Dr. Fallon. How are you today?

DR. KITTY FALLON: I’m doing really well. Thank you so much for inviting me.

JULIE: Thank you, we’re so happy to have you. So we wanted this week’s podcast to focus on

mental health which in and of itself is an important conversation to have, but I think especially

now with the pandemic and you know a ll of the additional challenges that people are faced with

and that’s for everyone to some degree. So I think let’s start there and just talk a little about the

various types of struggles people are facing. Curios as a practitioner yourself the kinds of th ings

you’re seeing and your patients and just things you’re encountering in general.

DR. FALLON: Sure. Well, right now my focus is on life coaching so my clients are a little bit

different than for mental health counselors so just to set the context. Howe ver, all of us are

experiencing really very similar uncertainties. However, we may all express and experience

stress, and anxiety differently given our different lives. So for example, we’re all experiencing

staying at home right now. We’re all experiencing witnessing what’s going on in the world. We’re

all experiencing um the financial and economic difficulties, but how that may be filtered may

depend on whether you’ve grown up with experiencing trauma or abuse. Whether you have had

necessarily the internal resources to the coping mechanisms to cope with life and life stresses

um or whether you’ve really struggled and so while we may have a lot in common, how we’re

experiencing that can be very, very different and so the suffering can be really intense at

different levels. Does that make sense?

JULIE: Absolutely yeah. I think to your point about coping mechanisms and how each person

kind of has those or doesn’t have those to varying degrees is an important thing to consider

because I think not everybody is equipped to deal with this sort of thing if they’ve maybe not had

anything traumatic or any obstacle that they’ve overcome or had to overcome previously in their

lives. So I think that’s definitely a great point. Something I was thinking about just as I was

thinking about this podcast and kind of what we’re going to talk about is just about the

the tremendous loss that we’re seeing…you know the loss of life. Really a lot of the challenges that

we’re facing in the pandemic, not only because we’ve maybe lost somebody that we cared

about, but also I think the public part of mourning that loss is, you know in our society, very

closely tied to gathering together and our inability to do that, how does that impact people in

terms about how they feel about closure and all of the things. There’s so much in our society that is tied to gathering in groups and that’s not happening and so it can impact us in terms of being

able to grieve the loss of someone that we care about. It could you know it impacts us in terms

of, I mean, the simplest like hugging, you know I’ve heard so many people say, “Gosh I miss

being able to hug my friends or be able to friend my relatives” you know so…

ARIANNA: Yeah I miss hugs too

JULIE: Yeah it’s true

DR. FALLON: I’m a big hugger as well and I do miss that and you know I think that this

experience has helped us to reorient to things that we’ve taken for granted. Like hugging, like

shaking hands, like being able to put our hands on somebody’s back when they’re sad, being

able to physically console somebody, being able to hold somebody’s hand when they’re

struggling or when they’re suffering. These are things that up until a month ago or two months

ago we took for granted. I don’t think we will. You know but back to your point about the loss. I

mean just beginning with that very core loss of people we love and then kind of having that be the core and then going out to all the other losses that we’ve been experiencing. You know this loss is so…in some ways it’s unique and some ways it’s not. It’s unique in the sense you know until a few months ago if our loved one was ill and we were able to be there we would be there by their side, we would hold their hand, we would console them, and we would be with them if we were able to be if we were up to do ing that. We experience that freedom if we were able to be. Now it’s not unique in the sense that many people have lost loved ones and have not been able to be there – combat, in tragic situations of violence, so somebody being in an accident and being killed. There have been scores of people over time who’ve been taken from us and we haven’t been able to be there. The notion of not being able to mourn together, that adds a layer that is a little more unique and also we in this country have not really experienced in a long time the notion of mass graves of not being able either bury or our loved ones cremated or even bury the ashes or scatter the ashes in some way be together…come together and mourn together

collectively. I applaud the ways in which people have come up with ways of having funerals on

zoom. They’ve gone virtual in collective mourning and I think that’s a sign of our hunger to be

together. That we will be resilient and get creative but I really can feel collectively a sense of

deep sadness and deep mourning and not being able to be with our loved ones or even risking

our own health to be with them and that’s something that is going to…we’re going to…we’re

going to carry that with us. We’re going to be grieving I think for a long time not only the losses

but how we lost our loved ones and then I mean really quickly you go out from that core

deepest, heart – wrenching loss to loss of jobs, to loss of that sense of being able to be

impromptu and just go out and get together with friends. Things that now people are becoming

very angry about and bitter and resentful, but you also have the loss of knowing what tomorrow

is going to look like if there’s a loss of a job, a loss of financial stability. For kids the loss of their

school year, for college and high school seniors that loss of that closure to their educational

experience, kids in eighth grade going into high school, kids in elementary going into middle.

That loss of the transition, so there’s a lot of loss and a lot of it is a loss of certainty. So that grief

we’re all holding different griefs, we’re all holding different layers of grief, and hopefully, we can

be compassionate with one and another for really connecting with what grief somebody may be

experiencing and how we can help support them through that.

ARIANNA: Yeah one of the things that I have tried to be better about and this was you know

long before the pandemic is to be considerate of other people and what they’re going through in

their life experience because everybody is on their own journey and I think what I try to do is…I

always tell myself, “Okay they’re doing the best they can with what they have” so I always

try to have that train of thought to be more considerate of other people and I think we especially

need that now.

JULIE: Absolutely I agree and one of the things I’ll say…I was just reading an article the other

day and I read this quote talking about just the shift in how we as a society are um, you know as

a result of this pandemic, are just maybe thinking, pausing a little more, considering as Ari said

what someone’s journey is. To your point, Kitty about to what level someone has the ability to

cope based on their own experiences with you know coping mechanisms and one of the things

that stood out to me in this article was the person said that it felt like we’re kind of on the

precipice it a forward – thinking social upheaval and this is going to maybe a course correction

that’s going to be based on kindness, and community, and unity. Things that maybe we’ve kind

of as a society taken for granted or have n’t paused to think about that maybe we’re taking more

time to do that now as a result of this happening. So with all of the loss and everything that

we’re kind of going through, all of the things about being lost by so m any. I think that if there

is…I guess a silver lining, as it were , some of the things that are happening and the shift in our

perspectives is something that maybe will come out of this. I don’t know, helping us to be better

humans [Laughs] you know?

DR. FALLON: That’s why for me I feel a tremendous sense of hope and a tremendous sense of

possibility that so much of what we have simply assumed would be there tomorrow.

JULIE: Right. Right.

DR. FALLON: Our….the economy, our financial stability as individuals but also collectively while

that can bring tremendous fear the ways in which our economy was structured have a lot

of…certainly inequities and a lot of difficulties to them…a lot of weaknesses to them. We have

the potential now to reconsider the way s in which we created our lives and often times in very

unbalanced ways you know how many of us work you know. I remember working sixty, seventy

hours a week, or more where my schedule had simply more in it that could possibly ever be

accomplished. To – So lists…email inboxes that would never end and we can use this time of

slowing down and have a global reset. We can begin to think differently about one another,

about ourselves, about how we organize ourselves as a community. We can begin to feel

differently. You know to have…you know I think now about folks who, until about two or three

months ago we weren’t thinking about shopkeepers, about truck drivers, about orderlies, about

custodians, about the chefs who work in cafeterias and schools who are now making school

lunches en mass sometimes for entire families. We weren’t thinking about realities therapist, we

weren’t thinking necessarily as much about nurses and doctors. We oriented our attention

towards celebrities, people in the limelight, towards you know whoever was trending on Twitter

and now our sense of awe and our sense of gratitude for people who oftentimes fell through the

cracks and teachers, grade school teachers, high school teachers, college teachers, trade

school teachers. I mean there’s a reorienting of how we feel towards people and it’s not

necessarily based on status right now it’s based on you are the folks keeping us alive and my

God I never knew how much you kept us alive and now I do and so this is a global reset. We

know what a small planet we live on with this virus can travel the world.

JULIE: Right

DR. FALLON: And maybe healing can travel the world with this much power and as much

potential. So yeah I feel very hopeful. While at the same time balancing feeling very uncertain.

JULIE: Right and I think that’s true for so many people. There’s a struggle I think between…the

balance between the fear and being hopeful. You know want to be hopeful and I think to your

point talking about we’ve had such a shift in perspective and it even…I was talking with Kat the

other day and she said something very similar about…just talking about a lot of the celebrities

and people who are…you’ve got a lot of the self – help and wellness type influencers who are out

there who are really taking this moment and trying to put focus on just things that people are

like, “This doesn’t matter to me, my family matters” My gratitude for all of the people that are

supporting us through this that I hadn’t even considered before that I now am saying “Oh my

goodness these are the people that are keeping us afloat” you know and just showing

appreciation for that is such a shift in our perspective. I definitely see you know I see a lot of

that. I think it’s good for us to have a moment where we can really think about and show

gratitude more. We just get so caught up in our daily lives and I feel like this whole situation has

made it possible for us to kind of slow down and really see the impact that people who before

were not given that consideration to really show gratitude for those people. There’ s so many.

DR. FALLON: You know for me I go back to the basics of what my profession utilizes which are

thoughts, feelings, and behaviors and so one of the things that, if we really sit with it, our

thinking can be both our saving grace and it can also be an absolute demon that can haunt us.

An nd so what, you know in terms of a coping mechanism, what thoughts am I putting my

attention on? What thoughts are simply running away and need to be reigned in? And then what

are the feelings that are closely linked that are almost like a balloon with a string attached. So if

the balloon is the thought the string attached to it is the feeling and what feelings are supporting

me and what ones are getting in my way? So for example, if I choose an action … if I choose to

spend a significant amount of time on Facebook, on Twitter, sitting there watching the news and

I notice myself starting to feel more anxious and I start ruminating and thinking about the

uncertainty and about, “ Oh my God there’s not going to be enough. We’re going to run out of

money, I’m never going to be able to find a job again.” So my thoughts and my feelings can

really get away from me. How can I begin to reign those in? This is a time where I can come

back to how much control I do have in my life. When the rest of life seems out of control I control

my own thoughts, I control my own feelings, I can choose to put my attention on feelings and

thoughts that will support me, that will help ease my heart and my mind, and I can also choose to…many people are choosing to limit their amount of connection to the news, to social media and that’s very empowering. So these basic skills that we individually have time now to begin to really discover how much we manage control and be like artists with our thoughts, our feelings, and our actions. We can also collectively begin to look at…so collectively what are the underlying assumptions and thoughts that we hold about people that inform our policy? What are the feelings we have about people that have been formed things like healthcare and um….lead to the various inequities and then moving forward what actions do we want to take as a society, as a world? Do we want to create policy and live our lives, our individual and collective lives so that we will continue seeing blue skies over LA and being able to see the Himilayan Mountains which have been smogged in for thirty plus years? Do we want to support the fish and dolphins continuing to swim in the canals of Venice? Do you see how our thoughts, feelings, and actions begin with our individual selves? But then they inform everything we do collectively. That’s where the reset can be exciting and full of possibilities.

JULIE: Absolutely and I think so much of the things that will continue to be challenges as we

kind of move forward and see how things evolve with the pandemic and just getting to a point in

life where things can, I wouldn’t say go back to normal, but when we come to a point with the

pandemic that we’re trying to slowly kind of return to some semblance of normal life I think we’ re going to need in our country some strong leadership not only obviously at the national level but you know also at the state level. I look at how much the local mayors and governors are involved in our taking the steps necessary in their states, and not every state obviously is doing what needs to be done in terms of you know making poor decisions, but I think the general overall leadership that we’re seeing in the various states is very…I just think it’s great. I think that…I was listening to an interview that Pete did recently talking about that and just how he as

having been a mayor before is looking through that lens constantly and I’ve been really impressed with so many of these local leaders who are really stepping up to the plate and showing that leadership that we so desperately need.

ARIANNA: It’s good that they’re able to show that and that people are actually seeing that, how

local leadership really does affect your day to day life.

DR. FALLON: Yes, and you know this experience has brought out the limitations in our structure

but it’s also brought out what could be the potential for where we could go moving forward. For

example, I’m thinking about a real weakness has been the ways in which the current

leadership unfortunately has set it up so that states are competing with one another. Even with the national government, the federal government, for PPE. For life – saving supplies and when I think about that the image that comes to mind is this sense of friction among local, state, and federal…the energy that is expressed locally within towns, within communities, within neighborhoods going up to the state level and then going up to the federal level. In my mind ideally, there would be a sense of flow where the energy is being cultivated and moving back and forth with a sense of fluidity that when there are local needs that states and federal governments can provide assistance, that when there’s a federal need that local and state s can support the federal needs so that you get a sense of that energy kind of flowing and it’s… it’s fluid…it’ s moving. But what’ s happened over this experience is it’s been fractured, it’s been clogged, it’ s been attacking itself almost and it’s very unproductive. So my hope would be moving forward that the lessons that we can learn out of this experience would remind us that we work best as a country when local, state, and federal leaders work together, collaborate. That they plan for the potential for pandemics like these. That they, just like all of us, before there’ s a storm we go out and we stock up, that we do that as a country, that we…you know there isn’t a sense of competition, it’ s about collaboration and so that’s going to inform policy. Another gap that I’ m seeing, and this is not so much local, state, and federal, but it is within organizations. Some of the gaps that I’ve seen amongst some service providers who are former students of mine where the expectations, the policies of these agencies, these are mostly counselors, front line mental health workers working with high poverty, high needs, highly traumatized individuals where the policies, the expectations, have not adapted and they’ve been very rigid and maintained and yet so these counselors are expected to do the same work, meet the same productivity, and the agencies have continued with their same habits of double and triple booking, where counselors have not had the PPE they’ve needed where some have been doing you know methadone clinics and they’ve been doing breathalyzers without any face shields and so their clients are breathing all over them and they’re at risk. So you see we need to adapt, we need to become more flexible, we need to recognize that providers need to have the resources in order to provide the best services. And the last gap that I want to mention that I would love to see handled differently moving forward is that people of all levels of employment have gained tremendous wisdom from this experience. They need to be heard, their insights need to be heard. We do not need the patriarchal, hierarchical structure of the person on top says, “I know best, listen to me.” No. I want to know when the truck driver moving across the country says, “I can’ t get rest because the rest areas are closed. I can’t stop and get a meal because the truck stops are closed”. You see what I mean?

JULIE: Yeah

DR. FALLON: Everybody needs to be heard. Their lessons, their wisdom. I want to know what

the orderly in the hospital has learned about this experience…about how to maintain a hygienic

and sanitary condition. I don’t care what this person earns per hour, they have wisdom. So that

fosters a sense of belonging and a sense of…of each person’s voice matters. Within

organizations and then within our country.

JULIE: Right

ARIANNA: A couple of other gaps that I’ve seen, which are disparities within the immigrant

communities, undocumented and documented immigrants who don’t qualify for the stimulus

program, or any type of federal benefits. There’s a lot of people who have lost their jobs, have

their children at home, they’re not getting their income and they don’t qualify for any type of aid

paying their bills or their rent. So there’s a lot of, you know, loss there too. It’s kind of like

personal for me but I wonder, you know like I’m pretty blessed to be in a somewhat decent

situation considering where we are now but you know other people are not as lucky. So I

wonder what you know how they’re doing. Like what can I do? I kind of feel powerless because

I want to help and I know there are other people that want to help. I just spoke to a woman

yesterday who is trying to help feed Hispanic families in her community and I actually drove

thirty minutes out of the way to pick up meals and drop them off at her house so she could

distribute them because somebody else wasn’t able to pick that delivery up. You know she

nearly broke down in front of me talking about how the Hispanic communities in our area have

been basically ignored or just been, “Oh hey you’re on your own.” So I don’t…you know what

can I do? I feel like so powerless and I wonder how that is affecting people who may be in, you

know worse situations than I am.

DR. FALLON: You know I want to go back to that notion of at the individual level and the collective level kind of our thoughts, our feelings, and our actions. As you were talking Ari I was thinking about…I was thinking about what you were saying and I was also thinking about the recent decision by our secretary of education to not allow aid, emergency aid, I believe it was for

D reamers. Correct me if I’m wrong on this and I think it came out within the last day or so and I

go back to what are the underlying assumptions that base, that inform what we do and don’t do

for people. So, for example, that…that belief you had said, “ Well you’re on your own” for the

Hispanic communities that you don’t hold but other people might hold. The lack of seeing. I don’t

see your suffering. I choose not to. The wondering at the individual about who matters and who

doesn’t matter and you know when it’s been said in the press recently, “ Well older folks they’ve

had a good life. It’s okay if they don’t survive. We need to start the economy up.” All of this stuff

is based on underlying assumptions, thoughts, and then the feelings associated of I don’t care,

you don’t matter. Now for solutions that will inform our actions Ari I go back to what you talked

about. So you heard about…you learned about… you may not have known that there were

pockets in surrounding communities of people who were without. You felt a sense of empathy, a

sense of shared suffering, and that feeling of empathy inspired you to think “ Well that’s not right.

That doesn’t work” and then you acted. You prepared meals and you went thirty minute s out of

your way to deliver them to somebody who was caring for this community. The solution Ari is

embedded in what you were talking about. The solution is I need to see you, I need to see you

as the human being you are, as the human community. If there are multiple people I need to

feel connected to you, I need to know you matter. I need to value you, and then I need to do

whatever I can do. You made a meal. You know one of the things that I did recently that just felt

really good…my partner’s birthday is coming up and she loves to knit and I wanted to get her a

gift certificate and I wanted to support a local business and then I found out the local business

owner had recently had their house flooded. So here they have this small business and they

were having this personal issue so I called them up and I said, “I want to get a gift card. Would it

be helpful to you right now for me to get a gift card from you?” And the guy practically started

crying and so it’s small moments like that. It’s saying I see you, I hear you, and you matter, and I

need to change my thoughts from “You’re not like me, you don’t matter . ” to “I need to open my

heart and say, ‘ No, you matter! ’ ” and I need to feel that heart inspire me to do something. You know what I mean?

JULIE: Yeah. Yeah .

DR. FALLON: So Ari your solution is in your compassion, the solution is in your open heart, and

the solution is in going out of your way to prepare meals and drive them thirty minutes down the

road. That’s the solution, Ari. We need to do that together and we are. You know how many

people are doing this right now? And that is….how many people are making masks to share

with neighbors, to share with community members. That’s the solution.

ARIANNA: Somebody has to do it.

DR. FALLON: Yes. One of the things th at I appreciate about this time is I think people have

been looking in the mirror and saying, “What can I do? What little thing can I do?” And people

are realizing, and this is where I hope it translates long after this virus is no longer active every

person matters. You know Pete talked about a sense of belonging, a sense of you have a role

to play. You know I think about kids who have been making signs to put up on their door

thanking the UPS driver, thanking the delivery persons who have been bringing the groceries in.

And people have been going to put up signs at local hospitals saying “thank you.” The folks in

New York who come out at 7 o’clock every night just to applaud and say “thank you” during

shift change for healthcare workers. We’re all realizing “I can’t sit back and say somebody else

will do that” that is a belief that is inaccurate. No, “I have to step up, I have to figure out what

little thing I can do.” It doesn’t have to be grand, it doesn’t have to be heroic. You know you

prepared meals, Ari. And think about all the people who ate those meals, think about how their

bellies were full. They were good tasting and it gave them a little bit of brightness in their day

and thank you, Ari, for doing that.

ARIANNA: Yeah

DR. FALLON: You changed lives.

JULIE: It’s the small things you know…

DR. FALLON: Yes

J ULIE: That I think we have up to now so many of us maybe have taken for granted uh felt like

that what we did didn’t really matter, didn’t have an impact and I think we’re seeing evidence

that you know those things are having a huge impact on people’s lives. People who have

otherwise just have some really bad situations going on how important that is. And to your point

Kitty that sense of gratitude, I think that we feel when we are in a situation that maybe isn’t quite

as desperate you know how we appreciate the small things in our lives. The things that are

helping us to get through it. I just think that is so important.

DR. FALLON: You know and we talked in the beginning about how much the three of us miss

hugging. You know I miss…you know I love shaking hands when I meet somebody. I don’t know

if I’ll do that again. I don’t know whether our cultural shift…we miss hugging, but what we would have to do. Those are merely the convenient ways that we’ve gotten used to expressing I see you when I meet you and my spirit sees you and the essence of my heart sees you and I acknowledge you. You know I think about the greeting and the eastern portions of the world, places like Tibet and Nepal and some parts of Africa where people greet with Namaste so you kind of put your hands together and Namaste basically says “as I put my hands together and now to you when I greet you ” it says “ the very best of me meets the very best of you.” We have had to get at having that form of seeing that we used to do in a hug, that we used to do looking in each other’s eyes but we’ve gotten used to doing that on Zoom, doing that over the phone. We’re expanding…we’re expanding the ways in which we listen to one another, the ways in which we regard one another. This we won’t lose we’re simply expanding and that I think is a really good thing and I hope that what we’re learning out of this is my world…I’ve learned my world is so small. I…I remember the night I saw on Facebook the image of the line in Italy of the cars and the trucks, and the military trucks that were carrying all of the bodies of the people who had passed and it just seemed like an endless line of trucks that were carrying the bodies and my God my heart just opened up and I mean I just started tearing up. These were people I had never met, these were people I didn’t know, I’ll never know, I will never know their families, but my heart opened up. We need to do that more and I can do that with an image just as well as I can do that with a person, but as a country, as a community, and as a world our hearts need to open up, and then everything else will flow from there. Our policies will flow from there. If we can think about what it would be like for us to design policies based on “I see you, I value you, and you matter.” Think about what health care policy would look like. We wouldn’t be looking at how cheap we could make it.

JULIE: Right

DR. FALLON: We might be talking about how affordable we could make it but we would not be

say ing, “No you’re not going to be served” it’s going to be “how can we serve more people,”

and afford to do it.

JULIE: Absolutely

ARIANNA: Right, there’s a certain power and compassion and I think one of the things that

attracted me to Pete was his compassion for people and his understanding of people.

JULIE: Yes.

DR. FALLON: And I feel really good about you know where…about Joe Biden’s leadership and I

believe that we stand at the threshold. In November we will decide at all levels. From local

community races all the way up to the president. We will decide how we choose to create our

country and that sense of decency, that sense of integrity, that sense of honesty, and building

policy based on humanity I think is something we have to do.

JULIE: Yeah.

DR. FALLON: We’ve learned over the last three years what it looks like when that is absent.

When there is a void of humanity. I mean my God my heart breaks open at the knowledge that a

few hundred miles south of me right now are kids in cages, are women in cages, men in cages.

I’m speechless at the lack of humanity. I want to pull my hair out at that redesign.

JULIE: Absolutely I think one of the things that I’ve been thinking about is how much the

pandemic has really opened a lot of people’s eyes. Already y so many of us were, what you’re

talking about, outraged. It just that the lack of humanity as it relates to the immigration and just

how all of those people. ..I mean these are human beings, you know. I think a lot of people’s eyes have really been opened to how important it is for us to have thoughtful, attainable solutions and the right people in our government leadership that can put forward and implement those solutions. Some of them are so very critical like the immigration one. Healthcare is so

important and what you were talking about where we have a healthcare system in place that really sees people and has that sense of compassion in wanting to help people and that it’s not just about “what is it going to cost? and “can I afford it?” If there’s a need there t hat’s been identified that there are policies in place to make that possible for people. So I definitely think that’s an important component. Something that this whole situation has really I think brought to light even more with the lack of leadership that we’re seeing currently and when we were talking about taking action. What action can we take? It’s important for us to lead with compassion and kindness.

DR. FALLON: Yes

JULIE: But also I think it’s important for us to try to seek out and identify those ways that we can

take action in terms of putting the right people in office and I absolutely agree with you. I think

Joe really has made commitments for his administration to kind of ex pan d upon things that were already implemented before our current president took office that were never able to continue

and move forward and be realized to the extent that they had hoped because we had a new

president come in. So I’m very hopeful, I’m really am loving that word and just how thinking

about that makes me feel. And I remember Pete used to say all the time you know when he

would do his speeches about, and I was talking to my husband about this morning actually,

imagine the morning after Trump is no longer the president of this country and the collective

sigh of relief and feeling of goodness that will happen. I mean I feel like the planet is going to be

vibrating with…the whole country at least…is going to be vibrating with the feeling of just relief

that we are finally going to be able to have a new horizon for our country. Leadership that cares

and leads with compassion and kindness and it matters you know to that person and to those

people that we have those sorts of things in place in our country. Because it’s so

lacking right now I think people are just so upset every day when they see the news and it’s just

how did we get here? Why are we here? And you know what kind of action can I take?

DR. F ALLON: The very pragmatic…the … the very practical how to implement that. The way you’re talking about is I remember what Pete talked about the notion that politics is soulcraft. That it is moral. That it is good and politics is the practice of how we all live together but it also begins within ourselves. So you know one of the things I would really hope that folks could take from our conversation today is to go within yourself first and foremost and consider…where your

attention and where you put your focus on the various thoughts that you were thinking and the

feelings attached to those and how those guide your actions. Because they start at the

individual level and then they come together collectively and that’s how we live together and you

know I feel hopeful that we can choose to live together differently and that we can choose to

come together differently and design politics as soulcraft at every level from local to national,

and to frankly, global. It will take all of us. One of the things that I really appreciated about Pete,

I believe that Joe will implement this as well, and I would love to see this at the local all the way

up to the national offices, is who is invited to the table. I would like to see this within

organizations, within hospitals, within schools. Who is invited to the table to share their insights

and their learning about what is going on..about what is happening? Because that sense of

openness to hear multiple perspectives, to hear diverse opinions, to hear diverse ideas about

where to move forward. That the openness, the inviting more people to the table, getting a

bigger table if need be. Having it be a round table where there isn’t the sense of somebody at

the head of the table and everyone else is some subservient. You know to get a round table.

Pete used to do that I remember he used to do that with the mental health policies with um

inviting folks who have been personally impacted by it. Either healthcare or mental health to the

table to say “What have you learned to help us inform writing different policy?” That’s what we

need. It’s a spirit as much as it is a practice of saying, “You are not excluded from the table but

your insight matters.” I’m telling this to the former students. One of the things that I’m doing to

give back, you know I live in New Mexico. I used to teach graduate students who were learning

to be counselors back in upstate New York when this started and one my students on Facebook

said, “God I am so exhausted ! ” and I reached out to her and I said, “Would it be helpful if we just

had a Zoom online debriefing gathering once a week?” And s he’s like “Oh God it really would.”

Well, we’ve been doing this for several weeks now and we’ve had former students who are

counselors who are around the world, who are in upstate New York, across the country and I

keep saying to them, “Your experience matters. Your voice matters. Come to the table. Get

yourself to the table when your agency is debriefing how they did this and what they need to

redo” and you know one of t he former students was saying “ M y agency double and triple

booked because of no show rates. Well, everybody’ s coming.” We ll, do you think that maybe you should stop triple booking during this time?

JULIE: Right

DR. FALLON: Like come on people. You know the counselor is just like “Oh God don’t do that”.

S o everybody’s voice matters you know the teachers, the schoo l counselors I’m working with

and they…they’re like “My students are living in places that are outside of the internet access.

We need to expand broadband access.” You know we need to look at the inequities. So you

know I want to go back to that notion of “ How are we going to do that? ” The how…I have no idea

what the policies are going to look like. But I know they’re going to be better when more people

are coming to the table to share their experiences. I know they’re going to look better when I

start to see policy that is based on a regard for the humanity. A regard for the humanity within

and the worth of each person. Not saying “You don’t matter.” I mean my God the notion of

saying somebody from a different country doesn’t matter…oh my God that just tears at my heart.

If policy tears at my heart then start from scratch and rewrite it. It’s not good policy. So anyway

I’ll get…I’ll get off my soapbox.

JULIE & ARIANNA: [Laughs]

JULIE: No I think all of your points are great and just the visual of the round table that you’re

talking about and I think that you know one of the things that we can do to begin those…the

walking up to the table…the being part of those conversations obviously is our vote, our

involvement in doing what is necessary to encourage others to vote, to talk to people about you

know what is needed in terms of our election and I think that is the very beginnings of having a

seat at that table is to be a part of that process and take action in those areas that you think are

going to be of value. You know Pete says many times you know, make ourselves useful. Find

ways that we can contribute to that process so that we then have a seat at the table and that’s

just the very beginnings. I was reading David Plouffe’s new book and one of my favorite things

that he said was “When you become we and we becomes us then we have an embedded

grassroots force that’s too powerful to be denied.”

DR. FALLON: Yes

JULIE: So I feel like that’s how we do it. That’s how we affect change, that’s how we get a seat

at the table because to your point about looking towards ourselves, our individual selves, what

can we do? What actions can we take? Then we take that and we bring it to the larger group, we become the force multiplier that is needed to push forward so that it ’s possible for those policies to happen and for those changes in how we do things in this country can be enacted. I mean I think that is just so important.

DR. FALLON: And you know Julie, if there’s one thing I can add to that, is bring your own chair.

Like you…if there’s one assumption I would like to challenge in each person that listens to this

podcast is somebody might be saying, “Well I don’t belong at the table. I didn’t get…you know I

didn’t get high enough in school, I don’t have any money, I don’t have any influence, I don’t

have any power. Somehow I’m not enough.” And I would love to challenge that and say, “ You

belong at the table and it’s not me saying that to you it’s you really reconciling that belief in your

head, that you belong at the table.” It’s not something that someone else gives to you it’s something that you claim within yourself. You know one final image in my mind I’m thinking one of my students…she’s a school counselor…and one of her moms is earnestly trying to homeschool her kid. This is a mom who has survived addiction, this is a mom who was at a first – grade reading level. How many people in power would say, “Well she doesn’t belong at the table”? You know nobody with a first – grade reading level belongs at the table. ” No, I would want this woman to say…to believe within herself to claim “I belong at the table” and if the table is full bring your own chair.

JULIE: That’s great

DR. FALLON: Take that seat at the table. Bring your own seat and the beautiful thing about a

round table is that if anybody is ever been in a big family is there’s somebody always squeezes

in. You’ve got tons of kids and somebody brings friends home for dinner. You remember how

there’s always room at the table. Somebody squeeze. That’s what we need to do. So bring

your own chair, bring your own seat and show up at the table.

ARIANNA: Right I think that’s very important and I think that we have almost the perfect recipe

for success in November assuming and hoping we have voting by mail in every state and

everything goes off without a hitch. We need people to “show up” whatever that’s going to be

but I think our journey that we’ve had you know since we started Barnstormers in August and

even for some of us before then you know we went from supporting Pete one hundred percent

and we were lucky to have that almost full year where other people did not…and I was really

grateful that our community day that they had to process their loss. But I think now we’re at a

point where we’re kind of running out of time, right? And the people who understand and know

what we need to do and what we have to do we’re ready but there are a lot more people who

are not ready or are not engaged. But I think we have the perfect recipe because I mean we’re

supporting Joe now and our focus is Joe and other down-ballot candidates which are very

important. But I think Joe now is kind of a blessing to us because we all kind of had to put

ourselves aside and we all have to come together. So I think in a way everything that has

happened so far has brought us to this point of coming together and working together and

supporting each other through what we need to do and with each other. So I think that message

of unity couldn’t be any more accurate now. I mean it’s just the times that we’re in now but this

community and all the good people that I see online have just been a tremendous glimmer of

hope in this craziness going on and I really appreciate it.

DR. FALLON: Well you know it’s interesting. Joe supporters really experienced a lot of grief and

disappointment early on in his performance in the early primary states but then the way that this

has turned out … you think about all those candidates that were on all of those debate stages

before. All of those candidates and all of their supporters have gone through and experienced the grief of loss and disappointment when their candidate left the race and so uniting behind Joe we have a shared sense, including Joe ’ s own supporters we all share the same chance of having grieved the possibility and we are coming together to unite behind Joe and support him in becoming our nominee and ultimately our next president and we will all bring that sense of both disappointment and grief as well as our hope in uniting behind him.

Practically speaking one practical thing we can do right now. Well, two practical things. One is to

apply for an absentee ballot but number two we need to support our U.S post office. Our U.S

Postal Service right now, which will be the mechanism by which we will all get to vote by mail, is

being threatened. It is at risk. It’s financially very unstable and if there’s any effort to undermine

our postal service that could get in the way of our being able to vote by mail. So everybody can

go out and buy stamps. Buy a lot of stamps. Buy stamps and use them to write notes to people

you love and you haven’t talked to in a long time and mail them the old fashioned way. Have

your kids draw pictures for their grandparents who live elsewhere and mail them. Let’s just get

tons of stamps. Find ways to support your local post office so that we can vote by mail in

November. It sounds sad but it’s important.

JULIE: I agree with you. I’ve heard of a number of opportunities where people can send

postcards to voters.

DR. FALLON: Yeah

JULIE: I have a few l inks for some of these organizations that are doing this um that for our

listeners I’ll put that information in the notes for this podcast episode.

DR. FALLON: Thank you.

JULIE: But I think it’s so important, as you said, we need to make sure the mechanism by which

we’re going to be able to vote in this election is you know…continues on…it’s very important to

support that. Absolutely so I agree.

DR. FALLON: Thank you, Julie, for doing that.

JULIE: Yeah. Yeah

DR. FALLON: And how cool to think that in this modern technological age that maybe we could

pause for a moment and send postcards to candidates as well as voters. Sending postcards to

our local candidates saying “Thank you for running. I believe in you. You matter. You’re going to

help us.” Sending them to everyone from Joe to the person running in your local community.

Sending postcards to healthcare providers, to the person who is the, you know, the orderly at

the hospital, to general hospital address saying “thank you. You matter. We’re grateful for you.”

Let’s use this old fashion way of sending stuff through the postal way to spread the gratitude, to

spread the appreciation, the respect, the hope. That would be pretty cool.

ARIANNA: Yeah that would be cool.

JULIE: I think that’s wonderful.

ARIANNA: We could totally do that!

DR. FALLON: [Laughs] Yeah! That would be fun! Get your kids to do that. That would be so

awesome. Spread the love, the cheer, the hope, the possibility. In this old fashioned way that

we’ve frankly have stopped doing.

JULIE: I think that’s a wonderful idea. I think a lot of people would really get on board with that

too and I know there’s a lot of people that are trying to think about how they can support the

post office in you know…in this time and just to ensure that we have that in place still. So, just so

many wonderful ideas and thoughts today and I just have really appreciated your insight, Kitty. I

know that there are just so many things to think about and so many actions that we can take

both personally and politically to try to affect the change that’s needed so I definitely appreciated

all of the thoughts that you put forward today and thank you so much for your time today, thank

you for being on the podcast with us.

ARIANNA: Yeah thank you.

DR. FALLON: Oh it’s been a joy! Thank you, Ari, and thank you Julie and you know the beautiful

thing about when people gather is…I had no idea where this was going to go. The three of us

went in these utterly novel, unique ways. That happens so thank you for having me and thank

you for hosting this podcast. Thank you. Take care and I hope everybody has a hopeful day.

ARIANNA: So thank you guys for listening today. We hope you enjoyed the episode of the

Barnstormer Base Camp Podcast.